Sammy Lee: The Big Interview - Exclusive!

Sammy, it's almost two years now since you left Anfield but does Liverpool remain a club that is very close to your heart?

I think you know the answer to that. Everyone knows. People know what my feelings are towards Liverpool, even the people here at Bolton. I think it was Gerard Houllier who said 'you can take me away from Liverpool but you can't take Liverpool away from me'. And that's the way it is. Liverpool Football Club has been such a big part of me – as a man and boy. That's not going to change overnight and I hope it never will.

So it's still the first result you look for when a Bolton match is over?

Yes, of course. It was the same when I left as a player.

Your departure came as a big surprise to many Liverpudlians; can you explain your reasons for leaving?

I had been invited to stay and I fully appreciated that. What I also appreciated though was that Rafa had to bring his own staff in. This was perfectly understandable. I've got nothing but the utmost respect for Rafael Benitez and the club. But having been a major part of what Gerard Houllier was trying to implement and achieve, during the bad times and the good, I just felt that it was best I also went, just as he and Phil had gone. To have stayed after they'd left maybe I'd have lost some credibility.

Given your love of the Reds how difficult a decision was it?

It was a massively difficult decision. All my family and friends are from Liverpool and I'd been there such a long time. I absolutely loved the place but I had to do what I had to. I had a couple of options on the table and I chose to work with the FA for two reasons. One because it is a great association and two, I thought it would be wrong of me to stay in club football after being invited to stay at Anfield. It was a tremendous wrench but I'd been through it before as a player.

Would you say it was one of the hardest decisions you've ever had to make?

Yes, for sure. I've had two – one when I left as a player in 1986 and this as a coach in 2004. They weren't easy decisions to make at all, I can guarantee you that.

Sammy on his love for LFC

"People know what my feelings are towards Liverpool, even the people here at Bolton. I think it was Gerard Houllier who said 'you can take me away from Liverpool but you can't take Liverpool away from me'. And that's the way it is. Liverpool Football Club has been such a big part of me – as a man and boy. That's not going to change overnight and I hope it never will."

What was worse – as a player or as coach?

(long pause) I'd have to say as a coach. As a player you always think you'll carry on playing somewhere and I did for many years. I then went out of the game briefly before returning to the club I love and so to leave a second time was more difficult.

At what point did you sense the end at Liverpool was near?

Not until around the time it happened really. I was away in Portugal with England when Gerard's reign as manager came to an end and, of course; various other changes took place also around this time. I couldn't tell you the exact time when I realised I would be leaving to be honest. It was all a bit of a blur at that stage and my mind was muddled up. It was a very difficult time for me but I realised, whenever it was, that I had to make a decision one way or the other. And I felt that decision was the right one for me and for the club

It must have been an emotional time, were tears shed?

In this game I suppose you're not supposed to admit to crying but I make no secret of the fact that, yes, I did. I was very sad to leave. However, I'd say there were more tears shed when I left as a player. Even though this was a much tougher decision to make I was much more mature and able to handle it better.

Did any of your family or friends try to change your mind?

My family and friends were superb through it all and I can't thank them enough. They were so supportive at a time when I needed it most. But at the end of the day they knew it was my decision and my decision solely. To be honest, nothing anyone could say or do would have influenced me because my love of Liverpool Football Club has always gone beyond other things. Rightly or wrongly, I've always put the club first. Certain people will know what I mean when I'm talking about that and I don't think I need to expand on it.

Was it comforting though to know that so many people wanted you to stay?

Again, yes, of course. As I've said, I really appreciated the efforts Rafa, his staff and the club in general went to in a bid to keep me at the club. I always have done and always will do. But knowing they wanted me to stay only made my ultimate decision more difficult

Having been part of the coaching staff that achieved unprecedented cup success in 2001 and then runners-up spot in the Premiership the following season, how frustrating was it that Liverpool under Gerard Houllier just fell short when it came to landing the prizes that everyone at this club craves – the Premiership and Champions League?

It was massively frustrating and massively disappointing, for everyone concerned. Equally so, I imagine, for Gerard, Phil, myself, all the staff, all the players and all the fans. First and foremost, I'm a fan myself and I think we all thought, somewhere in the back of our minds, that this was it and we were nearly there. There was such an empathy between the fans and everyone at the football club at the time. But looking back I think that may have been part of the problem.

Do you believe Gerard's illness was also a factor in this?

I'd like to think not because our record in his absence was quite good. But saying that, missing a man of Gerard's standing is bound to have an influence somewhere along the line. I wouldn't say it was immediate. Phil and the staff did ever so well at the time but maybe further down the line it did affect us in some sort of way, although how and why is not something I can put my finger on.

As a coach, do you feel a certain responsibility when a manager is sacked?

Yes, without a doubt. It first happened with Graeme Souness in 1994. Graeme had brought me back to the club and people may wonder why I didn't go when he went but I don't really know why. I suppose it was because I was only reserve team coach at that time. It was not like under Gerard when I enjoyed a much more prominent day-to-day first team role, so much so that I took defeat personally. In these situations, the main man is always the one who gets the plaudits but at the same time he's also the one who gets the flak when things go wrong. The big thing Gerard used to always say was that we were his team behind the team. Whenever there was any success he made sure that our efforts were recognised and rewarded, so it's only fair that we accepted our share of the blame when things went wrong.

The end of the Houllier reign

"In these situations, the main man is always the one who gets the plaudits but at the same time he's also the one who gets the flak when things go wrong. The big thing Gerard used to always say was that we were his team behind the team. Whenever there was any success - and contrary to what some people may now believe there were many good times - he made sure that our efforts were recognised and rewarded, so it's only fair that we accepted our share of the blame when things went wrong."

Things like that always come as a surprise because you always think you can turn things around. When things aren't going so well you just have to get your head down and keep working hard to try and put it right. That's what we did. At the end of the day it wasn't enough but, yes, Gerard's departure still came as a surprise.

Similarly, did Rafa Benitez's appointment as Gerard's successor surprise you?

In a way yes, but only because I hadn’t expected Gerard to leave in the first place. I'm sure there must have been a number of candidates on Liverpool's wanted list to succeed Gerard but to be honest I didn't give it much thought at the time.

How much did you know about Rafa before he arrived at Melwood and was there much dialogue between yourselves before you left?

I knew all about Rafa's talents as a coach because I've always been well aware of what is happening in Europe. We had also played against his Valencia a number of times and I'd been very impressed with them. I'm sure there were some fans who didn't know much about him but they certainly do now, that's for sure. He's done a great job and fair play to him. Prior to leaving the club I spoke to him a couple of times. He came over to Portugal to see the Liverpool players that were in the England squad for Euro 2004 so obviously we chatted a bit then.

Your departure severed one of the last real links with the so-called bootroom; do you think there is too much importance on having a local influence on the backroom staff?

With the greatest respect to the fine traditions of the boot-room, you only have to look at what has happened since I left to answer this question. That tells you it's probably not so essential these days. It's all about results and the results since Rafa and his coaching staff arrived have proved this to be the case.

So what were your thoughts when you walked out of the club for the final time that day in July 2004 and did you feel you were leaving the club in safe hands?

All I felt at the time was a feeling of emptiness, just like when I walked out as a player all those years before. And, to be honest, I didn't know how well Rafa would do. It would be easy for me to say now that I knew what was around the corner but that would be very conceited of me and not true.

Of course, twelve months later and Liverpool had sensationally regained their crown as Kings of Europe, when watching that amazing final in Istanbul was there any part of you that wished you'd stayed?

If I was to say no I think you, and all Liverpool fans out there, would know that I was lying. Of course I did. All I can say is that I remember exactly where I was that day. It was like when people say they knew exactly where they were and what they were doing on the day JFK was shot or Elvis died. The people who were with me will know exactly how I felt and who I was rooting for on May 25 2005. This may sound coy, and I'm not trying to be wise after the event, but I had a belief, and I said this all along, that Liverpool could go all the way in the Champions League last season. Of course, when they were three down at half-time that changed slightly but I still believed, and the people who were with me can back this up, that they could win the second half. What I meant by that was that they could go out and score more goals than Milan in the second 45-minutes. I was expecting maybe 1-0, possibly 2-0, but to go out and do what they did went beyond even my wildest dreams.

You watched the game from a hotel roon in Chicago while away with the England squad, what was that like?

It was unbelievable and I'll never forget it. If I hadn’t been away with England and I could have got a ticket then I'd have been over in Istanbul with my lad Matty and everyone else. I may have been thousands of miles away in America but my heart was very much in the Ataturk Stadium that night.

As such a proud Liverpudlian, did you get an opportunity to celebrate like the rest of?

From what I gather, certainly not like you lads! Seriously though, it was difficult not being there but rest assured I had a couple of glasses of wine to toast the victory. Don't worry about that. [laughs]

LFC - Kings of Europe 2005

"All I can say is that I remember exactly where I was that day. It was like when people say they knew exactly where they were and what they were doing on the day JFK was shot or Elvis died. The people who were with me will know exactly how I felt and who I was rooting for on May 25 2005. This may sound coy and I'm not trying to be wise after the event but I had a belief, and I said this all along, that Liverpool could go all the way in the Champions League last season."

You have been quoted as saying the rest of the England squad were congratulating you on Liverpool's triumph, but surely the players of Chelsea and Manchester United couldn't have been in the mood for a party?

I know where you're coming from but it's true. That's the type of camaraderie we've got in the England set-up. Why they were congratulating me, I don’t know because I'd left a year previous but I suppose they all just recognised the long association I've had with this club and just how much it means to me. Also, I think everyone was pleased because it was a great night for English football.

Having been brought up a Liverpool supporter in the days of Shanks and then played under such managerial legends as Paisley and Fagan, do you feel Rafa, given the fact he won the Champions League in his first season, can be compared to them already or is it still early days?

With the greatest respect that's a difficult question for me to answer and one I'd rather leave for a better person than me. What I can tell you though is that Rafa's record so far will certainly push him up there. I also know that he is a very, very genuine man. He's a very, very good manager. And I'm sure he doesn’t need someone like me to try and talk him up or down. His results on the park will determine how highly regarded he should be.

Looking at Liverpool this season, the FA Cup is still an option but the defence of the Champions League ended prematurely and it looks increasingly like they're going to have to settle for a third place finish in the Premiership, but do you still view it as a season of progress?

Yes, I'd say so. You only have to look at how well they've progressed in the Premiership. There was a lot of criticism labelled at them last season about their form domestically and also, to a certain extent, during the earlier part of this season. But it's clear for all to see that there's been a massive improvement in that. I think they are a very, very strong outfit – I just hope they're not so strong on Sunday!

I know you've been to Anfield a lot since leaving – is this more down to your role as an England coach or Liverpool fan?

Both. I was very fortunate that in my guise as a national coach with the FA I could get along to Anfield quite a bit under the pretence of scouting future England players. It's been excellent for to come back and watch games at Anfield and I have to say that the welcome I've received every time has been absolutely brilliant. It's as if I'd never left, which is really nice because the easiest thing in the world is to for people to forget. It's an excellent place to go.

During the year you were working for the Football Association on a full-time basis, how much did you miss the day-to-day involvement of club football?

Very much so and I think everyone at the FA knew that. Being out on the training pitch every day and dealing with all the problems that entails was something I missed dearly.

So what persuaded you to accept Sam Allardyce's invitation to become his assistant at Bolton?

If you listen to Sam or are in his company for any length of time you'd realise the honesty and sincerity that the man exudes. He is a real football person who is very knowledgeable about the game. What he's created at Bolton has been very innovative and, for me, his attention to detail is along the same lines of Gerard and Sven Goran Eriksson.

For a club of Bolton's stature their achievements of this and the past few seasons have been nothing short of remarkable but do you feel they don't get the credit that is due?

There's this pre-conception, and I think it's a mis-conception, about Bolton but we can't really influence what outsiders think about us. All we do, every time we go out onto the park, is give it our best. We've got more than one game-plan and we've got more than one style of play. We can adapt. It's not always what people want to see but for us it's efficient, it's effective and it gets the best out of the players we've got.

Do Bolton still harbour hopes of qualifying for Europe and possibly the Champions League?

Of course, and three points against Liverpool on Sunday would go some way to helping us achieve this [laughs]. We never make predictions. All we want to do is finish as high as we can and so long as these targets remain mathematically attainable then we'll be aiming for them. Recent results have not helped our cause but there are still a fair number of games to play and points to be won.

Lee on the influence of Shanks

I never worked under Bill Shankly but I was born with him and grew up with him. He was the Liverpool manager who turned this club around and shaped its destiny. The fact people are still talking about him 40 years on shows he was such a wonderful man and he's just one who's had a big influence on me.

You are a highly respected coach but is it an ambition of yours to one day test yourself as a manager?

Yes and I've never made any secret of my ambitions. That's the good thing about Sam Allardyce. He knows I haven't come here to stand quietly by in the background. We have been up front with each other from the start and he knows I'm ambitious, not ambitious in a cut-throat way but ambitious to better myself and succeed. I love coaching and being an assistant manager but I think you always need ambitions. I also know that I'm still learning the game. I have to walk before I can run but the last ten months has been a great learning curve in so many aspects.

So many of your former Liverpool team-mates, and indeed ex-Liverpool players in general, have tried their hand at coaching or management after hanging up their boots. Do you see this as a mere coincidence or does it have something to do with the football education they've received at Anfield?

The education we got as players certainly helped but then it's just been a case of getting the relevant coaching badges and learning the ropes. Another thing is that most of the ex-Liverpool lads that have gone down this route are in love with the game. This is a big help and a major factor why so many have done so well.

Do you find yourself still being influenced by those you've worked under and alongside at Anfield?

I think so yes. What all the best people do is try to learn a little bit off everyone. And learn from both the good and bad experiences because without the bad you can't really appreciate the good. Every manager I've come across has been influential and I like to think that I've gleaned something beneficial from them all. For example, I never worked under Bill Shankly but I was born with him and grew up with him. He was the Liverpool manager who turned this club around and shaped its destiny. The fact people are still talking about him 40 years on shows he was such a wonderful man and he's just one who's had a big influence on me.

How do you think the likes of Shanks, Paisley and Fagan would have coped in the modern game?

People are always quick to say that they wouldn't cope but I think the good thing about all of these great men was their ability to adapt. I think they would have been able to adapt to how the game is played today and put their own slant on it. They were also all very forward in their thinking so I'd say they would be able to cope and be successful. I certainly wouldn't write them off.

So, looking ahead to Sunday and your first return to Anfield as assistant manager of Bolton, how special an occasion is this going to be for you?

I could say it's just another game but it's not. It's certainly going to be different, it's going to be strange but it's also going to be really special for me. At the end of the day though all I ever want is for our team to go out and give the best account of themselves. We know full well that Liverpool are in a great vein of form at the minute and we know that we are going to have to play at our best to go to Anfield and get a result. When we do play to our best capabilities we can prove to be a very difficult team to break down. The respect I have for the Liverpool team is massive, both for the players I worked with during my time there and those that Rafa has since brought in. I'm really pleased to see them all doing so well but there's no fear. I don't mean that in a sort of gladiatorial way but if we had fear then there'd be no point in us turning up. We're preparing for the trip to Anfield knowing that we are going to be facing a very strong squad. But hopefully Liverpool will be thinking the same about us.

Sammy on Sunday's game

It's a game I am really relishing. If I didn’t look forward to a game like this, albeit with the emotion that's attached to it for me, then I may as well not be in the game. I can't wait to step out at Anfield as the assistant manager of Bolton Wanderers Football Club on Sunday. We’ve played Liverpool once before this season (a 2-2 draw at the Reebok Stadium). It was a game I wanted to win and this is no different.

You best make sure you don't walk into the home dressing room by mistake...

[laughs]Don't worry about that, I know where I'm going and I'm sure I'd be told in no uncertain terms if I didn't!

Seriously though, is it fixture you are looking forward to or one you'd rather get out of the way as quickly as possible because of all the sentimentality that will come with it?

No, it's a game I am really relishing. If I didn’t look forward to a game like this, albeit with the emotion that's attached to it for me, then I may as well not be in the game. I can't wait to step out at Anfield as the assistant manager of Bolton Wanderers Football Club on Sunday. We’ve played Liverpool once before this season (a 2-2 draw at the Reebok Stadium). It was a game I wanted to win and this is no different.

Finally, being the professional that you are, we wouldn't expect you to be anything other than fully committed to the Bolton cause and wanting nothing other than an away win, but what about your family and close friends, where will their allegiances lie on Sunday?

I think you best ask them but I hope they want Bolton to win to be honest with you. Otherwise they won't be getting their tickets [laughs]. Seriously though, I've no doubt that my Liverpudlian friends want the best for me but probably want Liverpool to come out on top. As for family, I fully expect them to be on my side!